May Day: The International Holiday Of Hope — by Thomas Altfather Good

UAW Local 2179 picketed the Strand on May Day
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 

NEW YORK — May 1, 2012. May Day is traditionally the International Workers Holiday but when Occupy Wall Street, looking to revitalize the movement, teamed up with Labor in the streets of Manhattan it became the Holiday of Hope.

 

“18 Miles Of Crooks” — a play on the Strand’s tagline
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 

WRITERS AND BOOKSELLERS

 
Workers at New York’s Strand Bookstore, represented by UAW Local 2179, have been working without a contract since August.

 
In March, Local 2179 rejected the owner’s latest offer. Management is demanding a two tier system in which new employees will get less benefits. Management also wants to increase employee contributions to health insurance premiums by 50 percent and is looking to cut personal days.

 

Michael Belt leads a chant outside the Strand
marched with the Strand-ed workers
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
The union sees this as a clear case of union busting and, according to the website (takebackthestrand.com), a threat to collective bargaining in general.

 
On May Day the UAW picketed the Strand to draw attention to the negotiations, or lack thereof.

 

The Wobblies marched with the Strand workers
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
The Industrial Workers of the World (Wobblies) are supporting the Local 2179 workers and the IWW’s New York City branch joined in the picket.

 

The Rude Mechanical Orchestra joined the Strand picket
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Musical support for the picket – which was well attended and boistrous – was provided by the Rude Mechanical Orchestra.

 

Larry Goldbetter, President of the National Writers Union,
UAW Local 1981
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Turning out to support the booksellers were the authors: the National Writers Union, UAW Local 1981, fielded a contingent at the picket. They were led by union president Larry Goldbetter.

 

MAY DAY 2012: LABOR AND OWS, REACHING OUT

 

At Union Square — some were reaching out…
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
On the southern edge of Union Square, a short distance from the Strand, a large stage was set up and various speakers and musicians, exhorted and performed as protesters prepared to take part in the main May Day march. Police moved onlookers along with variations on, “Sir, you can’t stand there.” Nonetheless, protesters on the opposite side of the barricades smiled for the cameras of the photographers being shooed away.

 
Stage left, on the southwest corner of the Square, one couple held a sign that read, “Police Officers, please join our march.”

 

INCENSE AND INNOCENCE — STEPPING BACKWARDS IN TIME

 
Just north of the hopeful couple stood Mahamtma Gandhi. His bronze image placidly surveyed the staging area for various anti-war groups including the venerable War Resisters League. The WRLers held a banner urging the working class to end war, watching as a circle of stillness erupted a short distance away from their position.

 

…others were looking within
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 

 
A short distance from the anti-warriors, in what would normally be a vendor’s stall, a red-bearded man in a straw hat and psychedelic pants sat the lotus position, hands on his knees, meditating. He was flanked by others in similar postures. Some held signs illuminating their cause: “Quietly Determined” and “Be Here Now.” As this reporter videotaped the peaceful practitioners the smell of incense drifted past. I mentioned to another photographer that it was a shame my camera couldn’t record olfactory data.

 

LABOR STEPS UP

 

Jonathan Smith newly elected president
of the New York Metro Area Postal Union
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Just north of the meditation circle TWU Local 100 marchers chatted with members of the New York Metro Area Postal Union, including newly elected president Jonathan Smith.

I’LL BE YOUR MIRROR

 

Andy Warhol – sporting a May Day sticker…
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
On the northwestern tip of the Square, under the watchful eye of a chrome colored Andy Warhol — his Polaroid Big Shot hanging around his neck — the UAW contingent gathered. Members of the Legal Services Staff Association (Local 2320), the National Writers Union, and other locals, chatted with members of U.S. Labor Against the War (USLAW).

 

A young member of the Legal Services Staff Association
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 

 

1199 fielded a large contingent
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Nearby 1199 SEIU, clad in trademark purple, unfurled banners as members of Local 802, American Federation of Musicians, tuned up.

 

TEACHERS V. WALL STREET

 

“Charter Schools: Wall Street’s Hostile Takeover
of Public Education.”
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Due east of the trade unions, opposite the big Barnes and Noble, educators gathered. The Professional Staff Congress (PSC), with their signature red signs, were one of the first unions to begin to file out of the Square. One of their number carried a handmade sign that said, “Charter Schools: Wall Street’s Hostile Takeover Of Public Education.”

 

WE’RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT

 

Sally Jones (Peace Action) with Todd Eaton (NY Protest)
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Members of Occupy Queens and Occupy Staten Island posed for a few snapshots as the UAW joined the march, following the teachers. Behind the auto workers was a group of protesters “rowing” a large triangular banner. As their lead marcher banged on cymbals two of the “sailors” held up a banner that read, “We’re all in the same boat.”

 
Police responded to the immense turnout — according to NY Protest’s Todd Eaton over 12,000 showed up — by sending some of the unions west across 16 Street. The marchers headed down 5 Avenue, and completed the bottleneck bypass maneuver by turning east on 10 Street. The procession was instructed to walk up 10 Street and rejoin the main march, already making its way down Broadway. The plan hit a snag when the NYPD told the “We’re All In The Same Boat” contingent to use the sidewalk on 10 Street. After a standoff the protesters agreed to move to the sidewalk but it was too late — several union contingents had simply walked around the phalanx of police and returned to the street shouting, “Whose streets? Our streets!” Police stepped aside and allowed the rest of the march to proceed.

 
Rejoining the main body, the union contingents continued on towards Foley Square as New Yorkers, standing on the sidewalks, looked on. After the main march ended a smaller group of protesters was arrested at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in lower Manhattan.

 
Overall, the general mood amongst those who took part was triumphant. While the distribution of scarcity is still controlled by the elite, the re-distribution of Hope is in the hands of the people and has apparently already begun.

 

“I am an immigrant. I came to take your job.
But you don’t have one.“
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 

View Photos/Video Footage From The March…

 

Labor Leaders Blast Corporate Tax Cheats, Call For Union Solidarity — by Thomas Altfather Good

CWA’s Steve Lawton mc’d the Tax Day protest
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. — April 17, 2012. On Tax Day 2012 over 100 members of several New York City unions attended a demonstration outside Staten Island’s main post office — not to protest against paying taxes but to demand that corporations start paying their share.

 
Steve Lawton , business agent for the Communications Workers of America (CWA) Local 1102, mc’d the rally.

 
Lawton introduced bus drivers from the Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU), Local 726, Verizon workers from CWA Local 1102, postal letter carriers from Staten Island and the Bronx — National Association of Letter Carriers (NALC) Branches 99 and 36 respectively — post office clerks from the American Postal Workers Union (APWU), mail sorters from the National Postal Mail Handlers Union (NPMHU), a teacher from the United Federation of Teachers (UFT), and members of the Middle Class Action Project (MCAP), a community organization.

 

CWA Local 1102 turned out in force — the union continues to
struggle to negotiate a contract with Verizon
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
“We’re a group of unions and community organizations that feel that tax day is a very important day, it’s a day of action for workers. We came out here to protest cuts to our community. We came out here to protest the constant attack on workers. We came out here to protest the fleecing of the taxpayer by the one percent and greedy corporations,” Lawton said.

 

Protester: Boeing, the number 3 U.S. defense contractor,
paid negative 1.8 percent in taxes (2008-2010)
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Paul Alexander, of NALC Branch 99 (Staten Island), described the role letter carriers play in safeguarding the communities they serve.

 
Alexander said that letter carriers report robberies, fires and other events to the police, providing some security to the community. Ending six day mail delivery would deprive the community of more than just mail, he said.

 

Paul Alexander sees the letter carrier as a valuable part of the community
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

“When we deliver in the neighborhood we are the guardians of that neighborhood,” said Alexander. “We’re part of the community and we hope to stay that way. With your help we will.”

 
Alexander’s post office, the Staten Island GPO, is slated for closure. He urged attendees to call on their elected officials to save the post office and thanked the crowd for turning out.

 
“We hope by your presence we’ll be able to make some kind of an impact on the politicians who naturally control the situation,” said Alexander.

 

George Botts, ATU: “An attack on one of us is an attack on all.”
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
George Botts, vice president of the Amalgamated Transit Union Local 726, called for unity — urging his “cousins” in other unions to come together to save collective bargaining.

 
“What happened in Wisconsin is happening around the country now and it’s happening here on Staten Island,” Botts said, referring to Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s attempt to strip public sector workers of their collective bargaining rights.

 
“You need to go back to your place of work and tell your union brothers and sisters that they all need to be out here with us,” said Botts.

 
“It’s great to see all you brothers and sisters out here because when it comes down to it we’re one big union family…we’re one big union nowadays and it’s the only way we’re going to survive the future,” he said.

 

CWA Local 1102 president Ed Luster
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
CWA Local 1102 president Ed Luster gave a fiery speech calling for “one big union” to resist corporate attempts to cut benefits, eliminate collective bargaining — and avoid paying taxes.

 
“When a corporation such as Verizon doesn’t pay its fair share in taxes that trickles down to post offices closing and public employees having to take cuts unnecessarily,” said Luster.

 
“We’re standing in front of a post office that they want to close because they don’t want to pay their share. We’re standing here with our bus drivers, our fellow brothers and sisters from the buses. They say well the City doesn’t have the money — if the companies would pay their share everybody would have their money and we’d all be living better,” he said.

 

Charles Twist, NALC, saw his processing center closed
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Charlie Twist, a NALC shop steward from The Bronx, demanded that a closed facility in his borough be reopened.

 
Twist said that mail has been delayed since the closure of the 149th Street and Grand Concourse processing center in November. Twist sees this as part of a long range plan to privatize the post office.

 
“We’re doing our job but they want to sell off the post office to Wall Street and we want to put a stop to that,” Twist said.

 

Teri Caliari, a teacher, echoed the concerns of CWA workers
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Teri Caliari, a teacher, activist, and United Federation of Teachers (UFT) member, told the crowd that teachers and Verizon workers have something in common.

 
“As you know teachers also don’t have a contract,” Caliari said.

 
Caliari said that by taking advantage of “loopholes, tax breaks, and accounting tricks,” GE, Boeing, and Verizon all got money back from the government, none paid taxes.

 
“When the wealthy and corporations do not pay their taxes, we, the middle class, have to pay more or watch our vital services disappear. This is not the American way, this is not the American dream,” Caliari said.

 
John Kubinsky of the Middle Class Action Project, a community group, said that Verizon and other corporations slashing wages, cutting benefits, and outsourcing jobs is an assault on the middle class.

 
“It’s not just Verizon people who are unhappy that they don’t have a fair contract, we’re not happy,” Kubinsky said.

 
His 10-year-old daughter, holding a sign that read, “Support postal workers,” nodded in agreement.

 

A 10-year-old activist from the Middle Class Action Project
(Photo: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
“Every parents’ dream is to for their child to do better, to have more than they had. For the first time since the Depression her [ pointing to his daughter ] generation isn’t going to be able to say that.”

 

View Photos/Videos From The Rally…

 

 

***

 

(Photo: Bud Korotzer / NLN)

 

While the trade unions and community organizations on Staten Island were rallying, their counterparts on the other side of New York harbor were also protesting. The War Resisters League, The Granny Peace Brigade, The Rude Mechanical Orchestra and even Billionaires for the One Percent were all on hand to mark the passage of another tax day. The WRL and friends carried signs that read: “End the wars, then tax the rich…”

 

(Photo: Bud Korotzer / NLN)

 

Click HERE To View Photos From The Manhattan Protests…

 

(Photo: Bud Korotzer / NLN)

 

Protesters March To Prevent Global Catastrophe — by Jason Sibert

Demonstrators making their opinion public
at 11th and Market in St. Louis yesterday.
(Photo: Jason Sibert / NLN)

 

ST. LOUIS, Mo. — April 15, 2012. Although their numbers were small members of the People’s Organization for the Advancement of Society took to the streets of St. Louis yesterday to express their alarm over inaction on global climate change.

 
The young demonstrators gathered at 11th and Market Street and displayed signs with messages like “There’s No Planet B,” “The Answer is Blowing in the Wind: Renewable Energy Now,” and “Climate Change Inaction, Global Catastrophe.” Most of the participants were members of the People’s Organization for the Advancement of Society. The organization is an activist student group at Crossroads College Preparatory School founded in November by junior Peter Thacher as a conduit to fight for change on global warming and the environment and also on gay rights, excessive military spending, and labor rights. The April 15 demonstration was the group’s first action.

 

People’s Organization for the Advancement of Society founder Peter Thacher.
(Photo: Jason Sibert / NLN)

 
“I just felt helpless about a lot of things our world and the lack of action being taken,” Thacher said on thefounding of the People’s Organization for the Advancement of Society. “Most of the kids here are in our group and
it’s great to see them.”

 
Approximately 21 people participated in the demonstration. Tia Rounsobille, 15, a student at Crossroads, was among those who participated.

Tia Rounsobille, 15, left, and Kiera Warren, 9, work on a sign for the demonstration.
(Photo: Jason Sibert / NLN)

 
“I wanted to support my friends, I got involved in this a month ago,” she said. “I think this is something that means a lot to a lot of people. Without our environment, we couldn’t live on this earth.”

 
Charlotte Sechriste, 14, a freshman at Crossroads, said she thought the demonstration was an exercise in consciousness raising.

 
“There’s a lot of people downtown and a lot of people will see our signs,” she said. “People might think about what we are saying.”

 
The young demonstrators marched from 11th and Market to the Arch Grounds holding their signs and chanting for action on climate change.

 

Demonstrators showing their support for action on global climate change march through St. Louis.
(Photo: Jason Sibert / NLN)

“What do we want?” they asked. “Climate change action now!”

 
Some motorists honked their horns in approval and a few bystanders heckled. The activists eventually arrived at the Arch Grounds and gathered to listen to a speech from People’s Organization for the Advancement of Society Member Justin Enoch, but Park Ranger Jay Brown notified the demonstrators that they couldn’t hold a demonstration without a permit. The young activists quietly turned around and left the park.

 

Enoch said the speech he intended to give was about acting on deeply held beliefs.

 
“We know this (climate change) is very real and apparent,” Enoch said. “We heard some hecklers on the way down here. But there is so many things that we can do and that are being done”

 
Enoch said he was impressed with Fed Ex Chief Executive Officer Fred Smith switching the company’s fleet to biofuels and electricity and he also said the fight against climate change was about transitioning to non-petroleum based fuels.

 

(Photo: Jason Sibert / NLN)

 

Which Is The Greater Crime: To Be A Whistleblower – Or A War Criminal? — by Tom Keough

Andy Borowitz Reports: Supreme Court Rules Healthcare Unconstitutional — To Be Replaced With Strip Searches

NEW YORK (Borowitz Report) — Political observer and satirist (if that isn’t redundant these days) Andy Borowitz “reported” on two recent developments that may be of interest to NLN readers:

On April 3, Borowitz revealed that “the Supreme Court decided today that annual physicals were unconstitutional and should be replaced by random strip searches conducted by the nation’s police.”

On April 5, Borowitz reported that “In yet another public relations setback for the beleaguered cruise industry, Somali pirates today said they would no longer board cruise ships, citing ‘unsafe working conditions.’”

[ There are some pundits who believe that Andy's work is fictitious but this reporter is of the opinion that more fact checking goes into a single piece by Borowitz than the entire body of work produced by Fox News. -- Editor ]

Debi Rose Honors “Women In History” — by Thomas Good

 
STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. — On Tuesday, March 27, City Council Member Debi Rose (District 49) held her second annual event celebrating “Women in History.” The event was held at the Snug Harbor Cultural Center’s Veterans Memorial Hall.

 

The Curtis High School Guitar Ensemble
provided the music at the event
(Photo: Thomas L. Miles / NLN)

 
The event opened with Reverend Susan Karlson offering an invocation and the Curtis High School Guitar Ensemble performing.

 

Lynn Kelly speaking the event
(Video: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Following a welcome from Snug Harbor CEO Lynn Kelly, Council Member Debi Rose spoke.

 

Historian Patricia Salmon was the keynote speaker
(Video: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
The event’s keynote speaker was Patricia Salmon, Curator of History at the Staten Island Museum, who offered a brief compendium of the many gifted and generous women from the “Forgotten Borough.”

 

Rev. Maggie Howard (right) was this year’s honoree
(Photo: Thomas L. Miles / NLN)

 
The Women In History Celebration honoree this year was Stapleton pastor Reverend Maggie Howard.

 

The Curtis High School Guitar Ensemble
(Video: Thomas Altfather Good / NLN)

 
Concluding the celebration was another impressive performance from the Curtis High School Guitar Ensemble

 
You can see the event on NLN YouTube – click HERE to access the playlist (5 Videos).

 

Interview: Carl Davidson — by Thomas Good

Carl Davidson at the 2012 Left Forum
(Photo: Thomas Good / NLN)

Carl Davidson is the co-chair of the Committees Of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS), a member of Progressive Democrats of America (PDA), and former vice president and inter-organizational secretary of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).

 
NLN’s Thomas Altfather Good ran into Carl Davidson at the 2012 Left Forum. Davidson was tabling for CCDS in a small, very loud and busy, room in the student union. Good invited Davidson to do a stand-up interview in a (slightly) less noisy part of the Forum.

 
Although the interview is available on YouTube (and worth seeing to get a feel for Davidson’s personality – and to appreciate his sense of humor) it is transcribed here as the background noise at the Forum is evident on the video.

 

***

 
TAG: Since you are well known for being associated with Progressives For Obama, I’m wondering how you feel on this [election] cycle.

 
CD: This cycle’s different. The first cycle, Obama was an unknown in terms of what he would actually do. We knew where he would stand, in terms of his campaign, what issues he stood on. Some of us knew him personally, from going way back, when he first ran for office, that’s when I first ran into him. I helped him speak at the first anti-war rally he spoke at. But mainly we knew that, back then, in the Progressives for Obama days, is that, whatever you wanted to say about where he was at, and we pegged him as a liberal speaking to the center, that he was, there was a difference that mattered between him and McCain and Sarah Palin. And so we said vote for him and that’s why we formed Progressives for Obama.

 
But this time it’s a little different because he has a track record. And I can tell just from the working class around where I live, is that they’re a lot less enthusiastic. They are really against Republicans and they may get out and vote for him but with not nearly the same degree of intensity as they had before. So I think it’s going to be uphill for him. For our part, we’ve decided to take the approach, and by our I mean, Progressive Democrats of America. Which I guess I can describe, it is to the Democratic Party what the Tea Party is to the Republicans. It’s independent of them but it operates in their orbit. Like the Tea Party tries to push the Republicans to the right, we try to push the Democrats to the left. And our approach to the election is to work for the election of 12 candidates including Norm Solomon, to get them in the Progressive Caucus. We’re going to expand the progressive caucus in the Congress. We see that as kind of the third pole, the third of three poles in the election. There’s the Republicans, there’s the Democratic leadership, and then there’s PDA, the progressive caucus. We’re trying to expand the progressive caucus. As to who we will work for, that’s who we will work for. And where we’ll put our money and energy. And we will tell people to vote for Obama, in the sense that you can always vote for one adversary to defeat another as long as you tell the truth about them both. (laughs)

 
So that’s a slightly more nuanced version of what we did last time but we think it matches the conditions.

 

TAG: So you would oppose a third party candidate.

 
CD: Not necessarily, it depends on the state. If you have a third party candidate running in your state and it’s not one of these cliffhanger states, go ahead and vote for him. In fact we are actively, and here by we I mean the Committees of Correspondence, some of us in the Committees of Correspondence are actively looking for a socialist candidate to run for statewide office so that we can run somebody on a socialist ticket. To take down, say a governor or a state senator. Again, if it’s not a cliffhanger. It’s sort of like what Dan Lebotz did in Ohio back in 2010. We’re looking to find other places like that where we can run a socialist ticket. You know, to try to build for the future. Because, I mean PDA’s good, for what we are doing now. It’s sort of the working class, democratic wing, of Democratic voters. It has no official connection to the party, we’re an independent PAC. But that’s the arena we operate in. But eventually we’re going to have to, I think what will happen is that the Democratic Party will eventually implode. And so our task is to take people out of there en masse, at least all of the good people out of there en masse. And then merge them with other people who have already been out – Greens or socialist candidates – and build something new. That can become, that can displace the Democrats. But to do it in a way so that you don’t help the right. That’s the hard part.

 
TAG: Given that we’re standing in a university and your arguably most famous work is called The New Radicals In The Multiversity, I’m wondering how you feel about that book now.

 
CD: It actually holds up very well. You know some of the tactics in it might seem kind of quaint, in the list of different tactics for battles for SDS chapters to go through. But the core of that book is probably where I did some of my hardest and most original work. Which was to understand what the university really is. And there were all kinds of debates going on — whether Students were workers or, there was a pamphlet out at the time called ‘Students N—-r’ which was absolutely wrong. Not only to use the N word but the whole concept was wrong. There was a concept out that youth is a class. There were all these different competing ideas about what students were. So what I did is, I studied Marx and I studied American higher education and I came to the conclusion that what students were, were the trainees for the new working class and that they were the knowledgable. That’s the product that they were in the university. You had to look at the university from a sort of political economy of knowledge or a political economy of information. And then what students were were the knowledgable. And that that was the main product of our universities – create a knowledgable worker that could fit in to what was then a new and expanding scientific and technological sector of the economy. And indirectly, would fit into the social safety net sector of the economy as well. And that that was what was going on in the universities and that’s how students should see themselves. They should see their battles in that context. And I was trying to write it in such a way that, by seeing their overall position in production and how the universities connected with the overall system of production, that it would instill wider class consciousness as part of their battles. That was the core of that work and I think it’s still true.

 
TAG: I think a lot of people would agree with you. So my last question has to do, it’s the perennial question, how do we stop the wars? First of all, I’m assuming that you agree the war in Iraq has not stopped.

 
CD: No, I don’t agree with that.

 
TAG: You don’t think it’s [not] stopped?

 
CD: I think it’s stopped. As a war it’s stopped. As an occupation, you know, war is a continuation of politics by other means. So what we have going on in Iran, er, Iraq right now is, imperialist politics by normal means. Which is intrigue, conspiring, you know, sending in spies.

 
TAG: But we have a lot of mercenaries there.

 
CD: I think the mercenaries will mostly be drawn out. Mainly because they have nobody to back them up at this point. So they’ve been all pulled back, put in these centralized places where they can protect themselves. They’ve been put entirely in a defensive mode. And I think that you’ll see that over the next year that they will be drawn down. So, I think that continued American oppression and exploitation of Iraq that will continue, as they do with any Third World country for want of a better term. THat will continue and that needs to be opposed on our part. But as a war, where we’re actually out there with our soldiers engaged on the battlefield, that part of Iraq is over.

 
TAG: And Afghanistan?

 
CD: Not yet. But it looks like its on its way. They don’t call it the graveyard of empires for nothing. And they’re beginning to see that they can’t stay there. Obama says he wanted them out by 2014. I don’t know whether I would believe that or not. But now, they’re pushing, Karzai himself is pushing to get them out by 2013. So, it’ll be interesting. I think we need to, out now from Afghanistan, still needs to be one of our main campaigns. That should be the focus, that and the danger of war in Iran. Those are the main focuses of the anti-war movement at this point.

 
TAG: So what can people do to resist the next war — which would be Iran?

 
CD: Well, I used to argue, and I think I still do, that wars end when three things happen. One, is that the streets become ungovernable; two, is when soldiers refuse to fight, and three; is when Congress votes to cut off the money. So, pick all or any one of those that you like and get to work on them!
(laughs)

 
TAG: Thank you, Carl.

 
CD: Right.

 

Watch The Interview On YouTube